========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 11 Wed Apr 24, 1991 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 08:12 EDT Sub: Monitors for the TT 201 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 1 Mon Jan 20, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:37 EST YES of course Jim! You'd get my money immediately. By the way, I noticed that some multisync monitors say that they accept both analog and TTL signals, are these the same as the TT high TTL's? ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 2 Tue Jan 21, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 10:02 EST No ECL is different from TTL. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 3 Sat Feb 01, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 23:27 EST Okay I finallly have my TT with the NEC 5FG monitor..man this is a SHARP screen and very good on the eyes too! Okay Mr. Allen where is that TT mono to VGA box you were talking about I want one! By the way, if anyone else has one of the NEC FG monitors can you tell me how to get the TT's display area to center? Not the monitor's display area which can be easily done via push buttons but the display that the Atari puts out.. thanks. Have a TT and enjoying it! ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 4 Sun Feb 02, 1992 M.ANGIER [Mike Angier] at 00:33 EST ASX, I had the same centering problem with my 4DS...it seems that Atari couldn't resist doing something off-standard. The Atari TT color monitor has an Atari <=> PC switch on the back and shows the same centering problem as in the NEC's in PC mode. I just added a Crazy Dots VME board and it is nice (although compatability is mostly in monochrome only). I am typing in STalker while running my NEC at 1280x960 (80Hz interlaced...not too bad). It uses the entire monitor screen...edge to edge, top to bottom. Later, Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 5 Sun Feb 02, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 19:17 EST Thanks.. I thought that there was some vague corrections to be made. Oh well.. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 6 Mon Feb 03, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 12:07 EST Interlaced, can't it handle that non-interlaced? ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 7 Mon Feb 03, 1992 M.ANGIER [Mike Angier] at 23:48 EST J.ALLEN: According to the monitor manual, the 4Ds can handle 1280x1024 non- interlaced, but the pre-programmed modes provided are for the plain 4D which only went to 1024x768 non-interlaced. I also like the 1664x1200 mode for pagestream and other programs. Later, Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 8 Sun May 10, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 22:19 EDT Has anyone tried an Omnimon Multisync monitor with the TT in TT medium. Thanks, Norman ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 9 Tue May 12, 1992 R.STUTZMAN2 [RUSS] at 18:37 EDT Norman, I use the Omnimon on my TT and usually I work in TT med. Most productivity software runs fine. I'm quite satisfied with the monitor. If you have any specific questions I'd be glad to try to answer them for you. Russ ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 10 Thu May 14, 1992 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 23:10 EDT Just for the sake of asking... can the Atari PTC1426 TT monitor be used on an ST, with one of those adapter boxes (I don't recall the name...sorry). SAK :) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 11 Sat May 16, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 01:17 EDT SAK, No, the PTC1426 cannot be used on the ST, even with one of those adapter boxes (aka multisync switchboxes). The monitor doesn't sync low enough for the ST color resolutions (when used on the ST). ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 12 Sat May 16, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:59 EDT The PTC1426 TT color monitor is NOT a multisync. It will NOT work on a ST. A multisync will work on a TT or a ST. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 13 Sat May 16, 1992 S.WINICK at 10:22 EDT Mike, According to Atari's literature, the PTC1426 is indeed a "Multisync TT/PC Color Monitor" with a ".29 mm Dot Pitch" . Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 14 Sat May 16, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 13:52 EDT I bought a used multisync so when it gets here I'll take the switch box, my PTC1426 and plug it into the 520STe and see what happens. I've been dying to know this myself.:-) I'll post here soon as I find out. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 15 Sat May 16, 1992 J.LEBLANC3 [Jeff] at 20:22 EDT I have a Nec 3D hooked up to my TT and it works great. Just wish it could handle TT high Rez! ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 16 Mon May 18, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:48 EDT Sheldon, etal, I know what Atari said, but they are confused. A case might be made for calling the TT1426 a MULTISWITCH, but it sure ain't multisync. I have hooked it up to a ST (didn't work) and a PC with VGA (did work). Just for grins I tried a VGA monitor with the TT, it worked in ALL resolutions. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 17 Mon May 18, 1992 DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 07:46 EDT The term "multisync" doesn't imply any particular range of horizontal or vertical frequencies. --Doug ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 18 Mon May 18, 1992 R.STUTZMAN2 [RUSS] at 19:38 EDT Mike, When you say ALL resolutions are you including TT high???? I thought that required a seperate monitor. Russ ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 19 Wed May 20, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:52 EDT Oops. When I said All resolutions I, meant all resolutions that work on a color monitor. That's still 5 out of 6 on a TT. High res is monochrome, the 19". Although, to muddy the water a bit..... There are 19" (and larger) color monitors that have resolutions high enough to handle TT high. With the correct cable this could allow all 6 resolutions on one monitor. BTW, such a monitor is VERY expensive. Can you say over $2000. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 20 Wed May 20, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:26 EDT Mike, I already have a monitor capable of displaying upto 1280x1024 NI and I still can't get the darned TT high resolution. There is the matter of special circuitry and custom monitors that Atari was notorious for.. Jim Allen: Didn't you mention something about making a box to allow for high res. on multisync monitors? ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 21 Thu May 21, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 11:51 EDT Someday when I have some time I will do that, I have two Moniterm boards, a Matrix mono board, and one Moniterm monitor. I'd like to sell off the Moniterm monitor and one card, and use a box with an NEC5D to display the 1280x960 mono signal on the RGB monitor....basically it's simple, take the ECL 0/1 signal, convert to TTL, and drive R, G, and B simultaneously through a small transistor amp circuit, with a pot on R, G, and B to allow you to adjust the resulting display for color...a nice bright white/faint blue tint would be nice. Anyone can do this, I'm really suprised someone like Toad hasn't already, since there's potentially excellent margins in Hires color monitor sales. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 22 Thu May 21, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 13:34 EDT What about simply getting one of the available VME cards that slot right into your TT and driving your hi-res multifrequncy monitor in that fashion? ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 23 Thu May 21, 1992 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 20:48 EDT I don't know... I've kind of gotten used to thinking that *real* ccomputers have two monitors... ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 24 Thu May 21, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:31 EDT Well, if you are looking for the added features of an addon color video board, then yes buy and use one of those. But most of the TT users out there are looking for a simple monitor that displays ALL the normal TT resolutions, no muss no fuss just change preferences to the resolution of choice ;-) The ultimate setup would be a 17"-21" hires color monitor, with a hires color card, and an ECL-to-RGB converter, that allowed you to easily display all the TT lower res's, TT hires, and the color video board's output too. No that would be a trick setup!! ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 25 Thu May 21, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 23:40 EDT Sheesh.. you make it sound sooo simple! I'm just getting into electronics so either you will have to give me explicit instructions, or build one. I can't "think" your instructions to a project, yet. But it still would be great for my programming projects and the Multitasking AES to have a large screen to mess around with. Once someone gives me more than two windows, I manage to get out of hand.. tsk, tsk. That reminds me: TO ALL DEVELOPERS OF PRODUCTIVITY SOFTWARE: If your program spoils the user with the ability to use more than two windows, please consider adding minor code to allow to automatic tiling, casacde, etc. Plus, it would be super if you "kept" the windows about 48 pixel margins-- this allows the users to access the icon base. Of course not all programs need to do this, but Calamus, and others had better, or else! (it's worth a try. ) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 26 Sat May 23, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 00:51 EDT > ...basically it's simple, take the ECL 0/1 signal, convert to TTL, > and drive R, G, and B simultaneously through a small transistor amp > circuit, with a pot on R, G, and B to allow you to adjust the > resulting display for color... Yeah, Jim, that's what I was thinking.... ;^) (The jargon's fantastic.) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 27 Sat May 23, 1992 R.RICHARDS2 [Roger] at 01:07 EDT Well, if anyone out there designs a TT high res ECL to TTL circuit, please let us know! ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 28 Sun May 24, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 17:57 EDT Roger, There are ECL to TTL level translator chips. I don't have the numbers off hand, but I could look them up Tuesday if you are really interested. Mike Allen ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 29 Tue Jun 02, 1992 J.LEBLANC3 [Jeff] at 01:23 EDT Russ, I also tried a VGA monitor with the TT, and it worked in all resolutions EXCEPT TT high. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 30 Sun Jun 21, 1992 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 04:03 EDT Volunteer(s) wanted for beta test: A new version of SilkMouse is just completed. I'd like to hear how it works across all the TT resolutions (especially TT high) before posting the demo for general perusal. SilkMouse is designed to give uniform mouse response regardless of screen resolution/aspect ratio, with smoother and quicker acceleration than is available with other mouse accelerators. It is should be used with the standard Atari mouse. Please replay via GEmail to M.SLAGELL -- thanks, Mark @ SilkWare ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 31 Sun Jun 21, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:57 EDT Sign me up Mark, I have a range of CPU speeds and resolutions available for use in testing. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 32 Tue Jun 23, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 21:43 EDT Me too!! ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 33 Wed Jun 24, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 02:27 EDT Me 2. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 34 Wed Jun 24, 1992 M.SLAGELL [Mark] at 09:08 EDT Okay folks, three's enough. Thanks. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 35 Sun Jun 28, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 20:53 EDT Does anyone know what monitors other than Atari that can display the TT high resolution. If I owned a moniterm I would try that hack but I don't. Also, what is the general price range for these monitors. Thanks Norm ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 36 Mon Jun 29, 1992 PDC.SW at 01:24 EDT Norm, well I got a good deal on an Image Systems monitor (about $1000 or a little under) with a 24 inch screen that gives a much better proporation than the Moniterm. It's awesome for DTP, I just had it converted to a 486 sytem, but still have the TT cable which you can get from me if you decide to do it. You can call Image Systems at 800-462-4370 and ask them if they can convert one to use with the TT. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 37 Sun Jul 05, 1992 N.JOHNSON2 at 20:46 EDT PDC.SW Thanks for the reply. I will call image Systems and see what they say. Norm ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 38 Thu Jul 16, 1992 S.GILBERT5 [Steve] at 18:11 EDT Is it possible to hook one of the 1280 x 1024 Color SVGA monitors up to the TT and use it for all of the ST/TT resolutions. I do not want to use 2 monitors but I want to be able to use 1280 x 960 monocrhome mode and use the color modes as well. Thanks Steve ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 39 Fri Jul 17, 1992 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.] at 11:38 EDT Steve, I'm not sure. Check with TOWNS and see what he says. regards, Bob Brodie ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 40 Sat Jul 18, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:05 EDT Good question Steve. I'd like to have a definitive answer to that. It may be possible with some custom wiring. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 41 Sun Aug 23, 1992 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 18:22 EDT I'm wondering how the Atari color monitor that comes with a TT stacks up against other alternatives. Any views on this issue? The Atari color monitor (I'm talking about the TT's 14" one) seems to have very clear resolution. But I also know Magnavox has a monitor that is comparable and also there's a new Princeton (model 1400?) that's available. Any ideas on this one? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Sunday, August 23, 1992 12:57 pm ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 42 Sun Aug 23, 1992 J.NESS [Jim] at 21:15 EDT Jason - Re: the TT color monitor vs. others... It may be a moot point, since Atari has said they've discontinued theirs. -JN ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 43 Sat Sep 05, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 01:51 EDT What are the requirements for a monitor to work (well :^) on the TT? Will this Hitachi monitor work? Has anyone seen one of these? (Oh, it seems it doesn't have VGA inputs, unless composite or non-composite is VGA with a different name. :^) Hitachi HM-3619A 19" Color Monitor Adjustable frequency range Vertical 40 - 70 Hz Horizontal 28 - 36KHz 1280x1024 pixels Composite or non-composite inputs 45Mhz video amp bandwidth .31 inch dot pitch ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 44 Sat Sep 05, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 22:03 EDT Oh, you've seen that ad huh? Composite means it's not RGB, instead it's designed to take in an IF "intermediate frequency" signal, and pull out the RGB color information. Sort of 1/2 a television. The non-compostite inputs could be seperate RGB, in which case it might work fine. The TT's highest color output is 640x480 which is about a 34Khz horizontal, so it sounds like the unit is fast enough. The .31 dot pitch is pretty coarse though, at 640x480 it'd probably look fine, but at higher res's it'll start to look shabby. The 36Khz max is too slow for use with an AlberTT board, but the TT output should work. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 45 Wed Jan 13, 1993 O.HANSON (Forwarded) I have just purchased a new TT030 and NEC 15" monitor. My first problem has to do with centering the Atari screen on the monitor mask. There is not enough centering control without pulling in the monitor mask from the lleft side creating a dark vertical band. The Atari dealer says that this is standard with this computer. He showed other monitor with same problem and says that I will have to live with this problem. Has anyone else had this problem? How can it be fixed? I can't believe Atari would put out a computer with this incompatibility with standard VGA monitors. I have tried my computer with one other VGA monitor (Gateway) with same result. Am I the only one to be bothered by this? My problems with some GFA programs will be discussed laater O.Hanson Salt Lake City,Utah ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 46 Thu Jan 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] (Forwarded) Haven't seen that problem before. I've got Atari's monitor so everything works perfect in every res even in VGA mode. My cousin is using a 17" Toshiba's and his works fine. I tried my NEC 3D once and I don't remember it having a problem either. I can check it again if you want me too. Did you try enlarging the overall screen before centering it? Hmm... I also tried a VGA at work come to think of it but I can't remember about that one either... it was about 2 years ago. I don't remember a dark band though. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 47 Thu Jan 14, 1993 CBARRON (Forwarded) No such problem with my Pana. 1381i and tt030. White screen in ttmedium begins to the right of screen area abit, the computer image is centered, at least to my naked eye, Centered wrt to the physical screen area. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 48 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 03:18 EST I have the same problem, but i am using a SVGA Goldstar monitor and figured it was just a with me. I also tried my TT (brand new by the way :^) ) on a CTX SVGA. It gave the same result, 1.2" white mask on the left and a 1.7" mask on the right. I have been using the machine for about 3 days straight now and don't even notice it anymore. It would be nice to center the image though. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 49 Fri Jan 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:09 EST Jim, I am able to center the image on my TT, using the centering controls on the Sonty and the ADI (the two m-sync monitors I have here). Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 50 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John@Lexicor] at 23:05 EST I've been using a very cheap VGA monitor on my TT (I think DELL?, I'm not home to check). The centering control on the monitor allows me to center the image quite well. However the aspect ratio isn't quite right, you really need a SVGA with aspect ratio controls to get the screen just right. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 51 Sun Jan 24, 1993 J.LEBLANC3 [Jeff] at 08:20 EST I use an NEC 3D on my TT without any problems. I have also used a VGA type monitor when I have brought my TT into work. Sounds like you may have a problem with your TT. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 52 Sun Jan 24, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 16:56 EST Make sure your monitor is on and connected before switching power on the the TT. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 53 Mon Jan 25, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:03 EST >Make sure your monitor is on before powering up the TT... Right! And if your monitor is a heavy-duty one (Sony, NEC, etc.) you will find it runs happy and lasts longer if you just plain leave it on all the time. My Sony has been running all the time for three or four years. (And be sure to use a screen saver.) Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 54 Wed Jan 27, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 00:55 EST Wait a sec....is this correct? I'm supposed to power up the monitor before powering up my TT? Right now I've got my CPU and monitor (and an external Syquest) on a power strip/command center so that all I do is turn on the master switch and everything powers up at once. Is this a no-no and, if so, how come? Also, I've been told that it's ok to turn off just the monitor (since it tends to run hot and heat up the room) when the monitor is not in use for a long while and then turn it back on when I return, but all the while leaving the CPU on. Is this too, then, a no-no? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Tuesday, January 26, 1993 9:40 pm ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 55 Wed Jan 27, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:53 EST Jason, When i purchased my TT i researched the monitor situation quite a bit. There is no reason, that i know of, to worry about turning your monitor on first. If for some reason your monitor was not syncing with the TT video signal then it might be neccessary. As for leaving your monitor off for a while and the TT on, no problem. You can't hurt the hardware with that kind of practice. As Nike would say, Just Do It! :^> Jim. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 56 Wed Jan 27, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 05:38 EST JASON -- I've always heard and read that all external devices (printers, monitors, external hard drives/floppy drives etc) should be powered up _before_ turning on the CPU. That has been my practice for _years_. The manuals for every ST I've ever owned suggest that everything else be powered up before turning on the CPU. Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 57 Wed Jan 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:04 EST Jason, It's OK to turn the monitor off once it is powered on. But do you have to? How about installing a little cooling fan on the bottom of the monitor to blow air up through it? The monitor will last longer if you don't switch it on and off so often. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 58 Wed Jan 27, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 23:54 EST Jason, I made the monitor suggestion just in case it was not syncing properly. My NEC 3D will sometimes get confused if switched on with no input signal. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 59 Thu Jan 28, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:01 EST Jason, I've been turning everything on at the same time for years. Haven't had any problems yet. I also turn my monitor off sometimes if I'm rendering something for a couple hours and don't plan on being around. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 60 Fri Jan 29, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 02:04 EST Thanks, all, for the input on TT monitors. Much appreciated. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Thursday, January 28, 1993 12:18 am ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 61 Fri Jan 29, 1993 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:58 EST Question for anyone: Is there a COLOR monitor that will display the TT's HIGH rez screen? Yes, I mean in monochrome at 1280 x 960 (I think those are the numbers). I know that cable would have to be modified. As you might guess, I would expect that the same monitor would also show the other 5 resolutions. Size and price are not a consideration. We should all have customers with such an attitude. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS now POWER Computers ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 62 Sat Jan 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:54 EST Mike, I've asked about this before (a hi-res color monitor showing the TT's hi-res mode) and was told it's not possible. But that probably means it IS possible if someone would come up with some sort of active adaptor to fool the TT and the monitor into the correct modes. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 63 Fri Feb 05, 1993 R.THURMAN2 (Forwarded) Can anyone tell me about the PTC1426 VGA monitor for the Atari TT? Is this a good monitor or what? Roger *l ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 64 Fri Feb 05, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 20:10 EST I am also using a CTX Super VGA on my TT and the screen is as reported before, an inch or so from the left and almost three inches from the right. I'd sure like to increase screen usage area if anyone knows how this can be done. Don ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 65 Fri Feb 05, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:50 EST I am considering a TT. Is there a file here that give general instructions on picking a monitor? Not looking for gold plated, but do want quality. Have not been impressed with the monitors, color, that I have seen running on TT's so far. I'm spoiled by the sharpness of my SM124. I would also consider large 2 page displays and such, since I am getting into Calamus, and sure wish I had more screen space. Recommendations graciously accepted. Color or monochrome. Thanks in advance, Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 66 Sat Feb 06, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:23 EST Ken, If money is no object :-) then check out the newer NEC fg flat screen mutisynchs. 15, 17, & 21" I use the 4fg 15" on my TT with the Crazy Dots 32k color board, and Calamus SL in mono 800x600 is sharper than my MST4/SM124 combo at 600x400 (or whatever it is). I often use 1024x768 for SL page work, but the icons get kind of small. The 17" should be great! The main advantage of the NECs is automatic screen sizing (frequency memories) when changing resolutions. You set the correct porportions and positions _once_ with electronic buttons up front, then forget 'em. Not to mention how sharp the image is ;-) A good price for the 4fg right now is about $749 (direct mail). Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 67 Sat Feb 06, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:10 EST Roger, I've got a PTC1426 and it works great! I think it got discontinued though so if you can find one I'd buy it. The base on it fits perfectly onto the TT and matchs it's design. All the resolutions automatically fill the screen. Don, My monitor has about 1" on both sides and 1/2" top and bottom. I've also tried a NEC 3D on my TT and it expanded out about the same. Sounds like you've got something set wrong you shouldn't have 3". My cousin has a 17" monitor and it also adjusts out to the edges. If you have a TTL switch you might try flipping it and see what happens. Ken, If you want a two page check out ATari's the last one we bought is like a large SM124. It's much better then the first model we got. I think they sell for around $799 and it works great right out of the box. I believe the SONY 1304(?) was also recommended earlier. One of them I looked up in Compu_Store had a .26 dot pitch which should be pretty sharp.:-) If your using this at home I'd go wih color unless your just a Calamus or DynaCADD freak. A lot of things won't work on the two page monitor. You can run just about eveything on the color. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 68 Sat Feb 06, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 22:38 EST Joey, not to expose my ignorance in public, but if I DO have a TTL switch, what and where would it be? Don ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 69 Sun Feb 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:25 EST Don, Probably on the back.:-) I'm not even sure if it's there, I've only actually seen it on two monitors. I just looked and it says TTC... Hmmm... could have swore my last monitor had TTL. Obviously I'm not much better at monitors then you are.:-) Anyway, Atari's monitor has a VGA, TTC button on the back and so did my SAMSUNG before that, although I never tried it on a TT. The TTC setting automatically supports the TT. I don't know if thats related to the TT or the Monitor. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 70 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:04 EST REALM - You mentioned that some software does not like the 2 page monitors. Is that software in general, or software of a given type, such as games? In my case, games are not used. If some productivity software is involved, do you know of specific software/hardware combos that have problems? Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 71 Sun Feb 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 16:36 EST Ken, anything that assumes it's in ST High won't work. Cyber Sculpt and CAD 3D come to mind. If you want to test your software download MONSTER.PRG it simulates a 1280x960 monitor on a normal ST. If your software runs on it. it'll work on the 2 page. One method might be to buy a 17-19" Color monitor and use it at home for a while as you recouperate financially.:-) Then add a graphic card with 1280x960x256 or 1024x768x256 color. You'll end paying more in the long run be a lot better off. If your going to use Calamus you'll need one with a mono mode. Theres also the AlberTT card which is really cheap now and supports 1024x768x16. You still need a color monitor and some mono only programs like Calamus won't run on it. Calamus SL will but Calamus won't. You don't have a problem with that method though because you can just switch the card off and use the normal ST/TT resolutions if you have a problem. You could also start with the Mono and add a Color monitor later if you need too or vice versa. Theres plenty of options, it's more of a money problem then anything.... at least for me.:-) I've got the 14" color and a Matrix card but I can't afford a monitor to really exploit the Matrix, catch 22. Hopefully I will, eventually.:-) It sort of pushs my Atari monitor to it's limits at 768x528x256. It really flickers to much to use very long. 640x480x256 is great though! ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 72 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:39 EST REALM - I have a backup 1040 with SC1224 for playing with Cyber Sculpt and other color programs. Seems I have one of the versions of Monster here somewhere, but couldn't get it to work with the acc's and auto programs I like to run. Guess I'll have Aladdin do a search on monster while posting this. Any suggestions as to where to get comprehensive info but not overly technical on graphics cards? I wrote Dover one time, but got no response. I never followed up, since a lot of Atari developers were not answering my letters, and I was "f word" mad about this, especially when hearing about small market, etc. This was long before I had a modem and access to helpful folks here on GEnie. Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 73 Mon Feb 08, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:11 EST Ken, You can ask J.ALLEN27 about the AlberTT card. My cousin has two. They basically provide a 1024x768x16colors out of the normal TT 4096 color palette. The nicest thing is it only contains one really smal Auto Folder program and your TT sees it exactly like it sees ST Low or TT Medium. Most programs work with it right out of the box as long as they'll support a larger area. I've got a brochure on the Matrix cards but everythings in German including the software. THere harder ot use then the AlberTT but you can configure everything down tot he height and width an scan rate of the the screen. They range from a 1280x960 mono card all the way up to 24bit color. I have the cheaper color one, if you want to know more about it let me know, I'll drop you some Email. Some of the cards have add on bus's for realtime video grabbers and genlocks. The even have an adaptor to use the 24 bit video digitizer card on the cartridge port of any ST and the Falcon. I just saw a Crazy Dots for sale over in the for sale section. Might be worth checking that out. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 74 Tue Feb 09, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:55 EST Ken, There is of course, a Crazy Dots category upwind of here a little bit. You might want to contact Dan Wilga (GEmail: GRIBNIF) for brochures on the CD board. Gribnif is the N.A. distributor for the board. TKR manufactures them in Germany but docs and screens are in English. A few of the more important features (from their newsletter): * 2 versions - 256 or 32,768 colors, both having 256 gray levels * Megabus and VME (TT/MSTe) versions. Megabus has "pass-thru". * Drive any multisync up to 1664x1220 in mono,4, & 16 color modes; Up to 1280x800 in 256 color mode; 1200x800 in TrueColor mode * Custom drivers included for most analog monitors, including SM124. Driver creation software included for other monitors. * Hardware "panning" of larger virtual screen * Tseng ET-4000 graphics chip set w/ video ram for fast redraws * DA included for custom color pallettes and color/grayscale switching on the fly. * Res switching at bootup in auto config program. Remembers last picked rez for config panel bypass. * Standard HI Dens. VGA output connector * Expansion connectors for future features. (24 bit color) * Easy install: no dissasembly req. for the VME version. A few caveats comes to mind. With CD, you will not see any of your normal boot sequence until the driver loads. See fix below. CodeHead's Warp9 doesn't work with CD in the color modes, although UISIII works in mono modes (I haven't tested Warp 9 myself). Just about everything else I own will run except WordwriterST, Touch-up (everything works except "Lightning" mode) and most commercial games. I like mine - a lot. I use it with a inexpensive VGA switchbox to choose between CD and "normal" TT output. I Keep it switched to "TT" during bootup, then switch to "CD" for running. The switch, along with Gribnif's XBOOT3 to choose resolutions and configuration setups at bootup have spoiled me. For example, I have several different rez "sets" that load in the appropriate NEWDESK.INF and Calamus SL .SET files automatically for each resolution/color mode. The boards are not inexpensive, but if you are going to do a lot of DTP, or color graphics work (Photo CD?) they may be worth considering. SL is much easier to deal with at 800x600 or better, and Gemview does wonders for 256 color GIFs :-) Text scrolling is a little slower and "jumpy" in color at high rezs, but in mono modes it really flies. System: TT with 4/16 megs (GESoft), Quantum 105, NEC 4fg 15" multi. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 75 Tue Feb 09, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:02 EST Doug Walter - Thanks for the extensive message. It will be on file for future reference, since I have gone and spent $ used TT system, with Atari monitor, for insanely low price. Got all software to, including Calligrapher 2. Owner did have Calamus SL, don't know if he got it sold separately or not. If not, I'll have an extra copy to sell to offset cost. Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 76 Thu Feb 11, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:26 EST Ken, Congratulations on your new baby ;-) Check out the February '93 Current Notes magazine for Dave Troy's excellent article on high resolution video options. Nicely done, and includes some more info on the CD and Matrix cards. Also, David Barkin has a good piece on scanning and scanners. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 77 Fri Feb 12, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:39 EST Doug7 Thanks for the info. The system came with Atari's monitor, and have already decided that I don't like screen display of WYSIWYG in Calligrapher when compared to my SM124. Will have to check into mono monitor or color board after adding the TT RAM to the system. Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 78 Fri Feb 12, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:33 EST Well, I have read the manuals for the "new to me" TT I now have. No mention of the actual resolution is mentioned in the PTC1426 manuals. So, what resolutions will this monitor display? Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 79 Sat Feb 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 02:22 EST Ken, I've forced it into 768x528 with the Matrxi Card.:-) It flickers slightly but it does it. I wouldn't recommend using it very long like that though. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 80 Sun Feb 14, 1993 O.HANSON at 21:13 EST After several weeks of testing monitors for the TT030, I have concluded that all VGA and SVGA monitors have the offset screen. Atari confirms this problem and has no solution except to buy their 14" monitor. I have found one monitor which has sufficient screen sizing to allow centering of the Atari screen, it is the Magnavox CM9217 17" unit. I seems to be an excellent choice. I tried 5 other brands with poor results. Atari should come up witha fix for this problem. I understand the Atari 14" monitor is no longer available according to suppliers such as Toad. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 81 Tue Feb 16, 1993 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 21:52 EST O.HANSON, A lot of times you need to didle with the pots inside of the monitor in order to get a properly oriented screen. The control knobs on the outside are really just fine adjustments, the coarse ones are located inside on the PCB of the monitor. I don't recommend you try and adjust them yourself, to quote Jay Craswell "You need to adjust the pots inside your monitor, but I'm not going to tell you how, because dead customers don't buy anything!" Seriously, there is a *LOT* of voltage inside a monitor, but if you trundle it down to your local TV/Stereo repair-o-place, I'm sure that they will be more than able to help you out, and it you are feeling brave, look for pots labeled v-size, h-size, v-phase, and h-phase (there may be variations on this theme, such as vert-size and h-pos, etc...) If you do try it yourself, I can't be held responsible if you fry yourself!!! Good Luck! Ken @ NecroWare Development ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 82 Fri Feb 19, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 21:33 EST Basic simpleton questions The used TT system I bought included the PTC 1426 monitor. I am spoiled by the sharp resolution of my SM 124 monitor, which will be going away. :-( If I installed one of the various video card, Crazy Dots, AlberTT, etc., will I get better resolution in color similar to the 124, or do I just get more info on the screen? Kind of like using the condensed display of LDW Power? What about the resolution of the SM 147? How does it compare to the 124? Is there something similar to Monitor Master (monitor swap switch) for the TT line? How is the sharpness of the display of the Atari TTM 2 page display, or other 2 page monitors? Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 83 Fri Feb 19, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 22:56 EST Ken, The Atari TTM195 two page display is every bit as sharp as the SM124. You just end up with four times the screen to work with. Very highly recommended for DTP or CAD work. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 84 Fri Feb 19, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:07 EST Ken, The 19" we just got about a month ago looks about the same as the SM124. They've really crisped it up since the first model. They changed it for the better somewhere along the line. Theres two problems with the PTC1426. It's color and it's a larger area. Possible a monitor with a higher Dot pitch will fix your problem. A graphics card doesn't help any. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 85 Sat Feb 20, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:05 EST The niceness of the SM124 comes from the fact it is a tight dot-pitch monitor, if you get a color monitor, it should have .26mm dot pitch and nothing higher! The 124 is actually .24, one mighty nice little monitor for it's price. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 86 Sat Feb 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:46 EST Ken, The TT color monitor has a wide dot pitch, and will not show any better resolution with a card installed. You'd need a fancy multisync. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 87 Sat Feb 20, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 13:42 EST To all, Thanks for the info. Am I correct, then, that a color card essentially gives you more colors and more info on the screen, but not necessarily a sharper image any of the normal Atari resolution modes? I really like area where I live, but other factors are forcing me to consider relocating, and I would really like to put this overpriced hobby of mine to work. Getting info is really a lot of work. I really want everyone who has taken the time to answer my queries here and other topics to know I appreciate it. Now if I could only figure out a way to see some of these better monitors, it would be great! Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 88 Sat Feb 20, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:39 EST Ken, Sort of off-topic, but if you plan to do much with Calamus SL, you need one of the monochrome 'options'. Either get yourself the TTM195 or a good multisynch with one of the graphics boards. For viewing at printer 1:1 (absolutely necessary for work destined for Lino output), it requires a mono mode to see the actual K (black) rasters in SL. The color modes only approximate the K rasters and do not give you an accurate representation of the _actual_ raster pattern. You could of course, use the ST high mode with your existing monitor, but it's gonna be pretty small, and not very accurate. Read: very time consuming and hard on the eyes. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 89 Sun Feb 21, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 12:24 EST H'lo again, Doug, Well, I'm leaning towards the mono right now, because I really like the sharpness of my 124. Thing is, among my ideas for turning this silicon based hobby into a life support system is one that requires a color monitor. No one has, as yet, answered my query as to whether there is a TT version of a monitor switch similar to Monitor Master and its ilk for the ST line. Ever since seeing a full page monitor on a NeXT, I have realized the value of seeing the entire page at one time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I am coming to the conclusion that this is impossible on a color monitor. I guess it's true, there is no utopia. :-) Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 90 Sun Feb 21, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 17:04 EST Ken, Nothings impossible if you have enough cash.:-) All you needs a graphic card and a 1280x960 color monitor. You can get a Toshiba 17" that will do 1280x960 non interlaced for around $1295. Then you can pick up any graphics card that supports 1280x960 with 1bit plane. The cards range anywhere from $500 to $3000 depending on what you get. It's definitely possible you just need the fundage.:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 91 Sun Feb 21, 1993 S.WINICK at 18:55 EST Ken, Any standard VGA monitor switch box will work just fine with the TT030 if you're using two monitors. We have one on our DTP/CADD demo system and sell them all the time to customers with similar requirements. You will need a 15- pin monitor extension cable, but you MUST get one with all pins wired. Most standard VGA extension cables do not have all pins wired. If you have trouble finding these things drop me E-mail; we keep them in stock. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 92 Sun Feb 21, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:14 EST Ken - as Jim and Sheldon said... Yes! 17" or greater color mons are coming down in price fast. If you get a grafix card, you have ALL bases covered because you can do color AND 1 bit (mono) at resolutions as high as the monitor will drive. I use my 15" in both 256 color and mono at 1024x768. The mono is everybit as clear as my 4 year old SM124. You may have gotten confused in an earlier message about what you get at the higher rezs. Mono at that rez is NOT like ST hi expanded to fill the screen. For instance, you will have to reconfigure your desktop because the existing windows won't fill up enough of the screen :-) Notice the difference in menu sizes between ST low and TT medium, and then _double_ that for 1024x768. BTW, If you get a multisynch, the card does the resolution switching for you at boot up. Do you ever see Computer Shopper, PC Sources, or the like up there? Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 93 Mon Feb 22, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 02:10 EST Doug7 I'm beginning to think that I will just have to figure a way to actually _see_ one of these things in action. Might have to go to Sunnyvale to do that. (Maybe I could kick some b--t in the marketing department!) As good a store as Far North Computers in Fairbanks is, the sophitication we are talking about is above the marketplace there, so Frank doesn't carry anything like this on display in the store. HMMM! Let pose a hypothetical situation. I have seen the mono full page display for a NeXT. Believe it or not, there is one of those here. Let's also say I have stolen your 15" multisync (I assume it is multisync) and am running in mono mode. Would what I see on your monitor approximate what I see on the NeXT monitor? To put it another way, I have played with the MonSTer screen emulator. When I boot up Word Up and display the document, I can see and entire 8 1/2 by 11 page at once. Would I see amount of the page on your monitor in mono mode, and would it be as readable as the same document on the 124? Think I just may have to talk to Capt. Kirk and Scotty about beaming me around so I can see these things. Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 94 Mon Feb 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:55 EST Ken, The problem with finding a TT monitor switcher is that all you need is a VGA monitor switchbox, not something made just for the TT. I saw some at a recent fair for $13. The probably sell for $20 to $30 usually. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 95 Mon Feb 22, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 10:55 EST Finding a monitor switch box was easy (although more expensive). Finding a cable for the box to the TT has been harder. So far all the cables I have found (15 pin high density) are missing one pin, and it seems to be the pin that tells the TT to switch to high resolution. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 96 Mon Feb 22, 1993 S.WINICK at 19:22 EST Sandy, A standard VGA monitor extension cable does NOT have all 15 pins wired through. But fully wired 15-pin cables ARE available. We keep them in stock for our TT030 customers. Guess you just have to look a little harder to find them though. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 97 Tue Feb 23, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:37 EST Ken, Sure, beam on down here to Minnesota - but bring warmer clothes :-) Unfortunately, I haven't paid much attention to the NeXT desktop, and I have neither MonSTer nor Word Up. Gribnif has my card at the moment so I'm working off of short-term memory until I get it back (any day now - right Dan?) As soon as I do, I will capture some 800x600 and 1024x768 screen shot .IMGs for you. In the meantime... You see porportianally more screen as the rez goes up. An image that fills the screen at 640x480 will fill about 75% of the screen at 800x600 and only about half the screen at 1024x768. For a real-world example, notice the Calamus SL desktop with a document set at "view full page". At 400 dpi vert rez (ST hi), the DMC logo box and the document touch the bottom of the screen. At 800x600 (SVGA) the DMC logo is about 3 quarters of the way down the page yet the "full page" has expanded to touch the bottom of the screen. At 1024x768 (XVGA) the logo box is less than halfway down the screen and the page has enlarged even more to still touch the bottom of the screen. Even though you are viewing the "full page" in every case, you have that much more screen to view it in, so the details get larger and easier to read. (Still with me? I'm not much of a teacher ;-) Theoretically, if you get a large enough monitor and enough resolution, "View full page" and "View actual size" would be the same. Conversely, as the rez goes up, the icon and tool sizes go down. On my 15" monitor, the icons are REALLY TINY at 1280x9xx. Thats why the TTM195 is so large :-) Phew! Now -I'm- confused... Al & Sandy, If you can't find a true VGA switch locally, try the Computer Shopper. I bought my plain-jane VGA switchbox without the unecessary keyboard switching for $29, from Cables-To-Go in Ohio. The 6' VGA cables were $5 each and although only 14 pins are wired, they work on the TT just fine. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 98 Tue Feb 23, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:11 EST Doug7 What do you mean, warmer clothes? Had any -64 temps there lately. We had about a week of -60 temps here this winter. I'll appreciated the screen shots, and I think I understand what your saying. REALM and I have been emailing back and forth, so have been "gittin' edified". I'm beginning to suspect that, for my uses, I will be disappointed in what I see in color compared to what I would seen in mono in the same sized monitor. At this point in time, I do not do anything in color. Don't even play games. I only have one idea in my brain at the moment that would require color. Check business prgs. cat, topic "Is there a prg that?" if your curious. I'll be looking forward to the screen shots. Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 99 Wed Feb 24, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:16 EST Ken, ONLY -64??? Why, when I was a kid, I had to walk 42 miles to school (uphill, both ways) every day, in weather colder than that - barefoot too. Well, maybe it was my father who used to tell _me_ that :-) OK - I'll send 'em as soon as I can. BTW, Joey can probably explain the "phenomena de rezolution" 100x better than I can. You got it covered :-) Sounds like quite a project! I makes my monies updating maintenance and operation manuals. It's a potentially good market, cuz most OEM supplied docs are AWFUL, no matter what the equipment or subject. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 100 Wed Feb 24, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 18:59 EST Sheldon Is it possible to run one VGA monitor for use by both a TT and a 386? Sure would clear up desk space if/when I decide to get a TT. %^) Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 101 Wed Feb 24, 1993 S.WINICK at 21:56 EST Swampy, You should be able to use a monitor switch box to switch between the two computers and one monitor. However, since the TT and the 386 require different adjustments of the monitor, you'll either have to readjust the picture for each system or use a multisync monitor that can be programmed with different adjustments for each computer system. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 102 Wed Feb 24, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 23:21 EST Swampy, I'm using a VGA switch to connect a color monitor between a TT and a Falcon now and suspect there would be no problem doing the same with a PC. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 103 Thu Feb 25, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:42 EST D.D., Yes, you can use the same monitor on a TT and a PC. I've done it with a switchbox. It helps if the monitor has autosizing, since the signal that is sent in each case will be different. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 104 Thu Feb 25, 1993 J.DERNAR at 21:56 EST It was stated that the SM124 has a .24 dot pitch. What does the TT-19 monitor have? ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 105 Thu Feb 25, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 23:06 EST SHELDON -- Gee, I guess I'd have to see such a system up and running to decide how much of a hassle it would be to run a VGA with both a TT and a 386. I currently run my MSTE and the 386 with switch boxes for both the dotmatrix and Laser printers. That's not a big hassle except when I forget to switch them over :( AL F.- What brand monitor are you running? Autosizing? ARRGH another term to remember... %^) Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 106 Fri Feb 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:48 EST D.D., An ADI MicroScan 4A, 15-inch, list $860 or so, normal discount $570; I paid $430. Flat screen and gorgeous color. PC Mag did a monitor test this issue and rated the next model down one of the Editors' Choices. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 107 Fri Feb 26, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 21:43 EST AL -- Wow.. heavy bucks, but it sounds like a heck of a monitor. I've made note of your message 106 so I can remember to look at one next time I'm in the big city. Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 108 Fri Feb 26, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 23:00 EST Swampy, An "autosizing" monitor remembers all your screen settings (centering, width, etc.) and automaticaly resets them based on the horizontal frequency (?) coming in. So if you switch from your ST to PC, the monitor detects the change and resets everything for you. Sometimes they call them microprocessor controlled monitors. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 109 Sun Feb 28, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 09:55 EST RON - An "autosizing" monitor sounds like the way to go. Any problem with a VGA monitor and Spectre/GCR on a TT? Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 110 Sun Feb 28, 1993 EXPLORER.1 [] Ron [] at 20:59 EST Swampy, The Nec 3D here is perfectly happy in ST monochrome running Spectre/GCR on the MSTe. Haven't tried GCR on the TT yet but I see no reason it would not work. Ron @ Atari Explorer Magazine ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 111 Sat Mar 13, 1993 J.LEBLANC3 [Jeff] at 09:03 EST I have a Nec 3D, TT030, and Spectre GCR. It works great. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 112 Sat Mar 13, 1993 J.DERNAR at 22:05 EST Jeff, what resolution is the monitor running at in TT mode? Could you have also run the 17" NEC monitors also? How does the color compare to similar monitors on pee-cee's? Thanks.. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 113 Mon Mar 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:47 EST J. Dernar, The newer NEC monitors, like nearly all other new multisyncs, will not show a full TT medium-res screen. The 3D will. The problem is the screen width, not height. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 114 Fri Mar 19, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 18:55 EST Am I perceiving things right that one of video cards will allow a 14" or 17" monitor to be used and it will use the WHOLE screen for display? The monitor display from my TT is pretty disappointing. Don ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 115 Fri Mar 19, 1993 S.WINICK at 19:44 EST Don, You should be able to use a 14" or 17" monitor without a VME graphics card if you don't need a higher resolution that the normal TT030 graphics modes. Some monitors will adjust to the TT's video output better than others. If there's not enough adjustment on the external controls, its possible for a service technician to go inside and make some additional adjustments with the pots on the circuit board. Take the monitor back to your dealer and ask him to adjust it properly for your system. The main thing to look for is proper proportions of the display. i.e. Is a circle truly round. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 116 Tue Mar 23, 1993 D.HARRIS8 at 06:14 EST Sheldon, the "circle truly round" criteria is one thing I'm hoping to achieve. I sometimes use Calamus (and ALWAYS Outline Art) in ST High because TT Med gives me "Taller than Wide". Of course, I then have to put up with the same small screen as my SM124, so what has been gained? I'd give my left foot for a 19" hirez mono monitor! In fact, I'd give my right arm to be ambidexterous, but that's another story... 8^) Don ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 117 Wed Mar 24, 1993 S.WINICK at 08:52 EST Don, Some monitors simply do not have enough horizontal adjustment to work properly with the TT030. Some may also need to be 'tweeked' a little with the internal adjustments before doing the final adjustment with the external controls. If you can't get a ROUND circle on the screen, then the monitor you have should be returned to the dealer you bought it from for proper adjustment or exchange. I can't imagine trying to do DTP work on a misadjusted monitor. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 118 Wed Mar 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:47 EST Sheldon, I haven't seen a S-VGA monitor that DID have enough horizontal adjustment for the TT. Have you? My experience has not shown that any of the non-Atari models can sync the horizontal rate slow enough, at least among the new models. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 119 Wed Mar 24, 1993 S.WINICK at 22:55 EST Al, We've had good luck with the Magnavox CM9089. It works very well with the TT030 once it is properly adjusted. Unfortunately, that proper adjustment requires internal adjustment of the pots on the mother board as well as adjustment of the external controls in order to get a picture of proper proportions. WARNING: Internal adjustments should only be done by a qualified dealer or service technician -- NEVER remove the monitor case unless you are qualified to do so -- there is very high voltage inside that can cause serious injury -- even when the monitor is turned off!! We've been using the Magnavox ourselves for quite some time, and have many customers who are also very satisfied with that monitor's performance. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 120 Wed Mar 24, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:57 EST Don, As Sheldon said, ratio adjustment IS critical. On the up-side, many of the better multisynch monitors now have digital synch and sizing controls that handle this automatically. In other words, when changing resolutions (or CPUs), the monitor automatically adjusts size and ratio to either a preset industry standard (VGA, SVGA, etc.), or user defined settings retained in memory (TT med, 1024x768, etc). Typically these newer monitors have digital set-and-forget adjustments up front. All are straight plug-n-play with the TT's standard HD15 pin VGA connector. Check out the US FLEX ad in any Computer Shopper mag for typical specs and prices. Coincidentally, a number of the PC and Mac mags ran comprehensive monitor comparisons in the last 2 months. My NEC 4fg handles this extremely well, and I frequently jump between resolutions from as low as ST Hi to 1024x768 (with a graphics card). As far as TT med output not filling the screen horizontally, I have tried 3 different brands of monitor, and all do the same. Must be something inherant with the TT. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 121 Fri Mar 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:43 EST Thanks, Sheldon. Maybe I should see if my Sony can be adjusted. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 122 Fri Mar 26, 1993 S.WINICK at 06:22 EST Al, If you don't have enough adjustment available on the external controls, a qualified technician may be able to do the necessary monitor adjustments using the internal pots. In any event, I can't imagine trying to do DTP or graphics work on a mis-adjusted monitor. Arghhhh! Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 123 Sat Mar 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:03 EST Shedlon, I'm not sure if it's a monitor adjustment or the horizontal scan rate that's the problem with TTs and VGA or SVGA monitors. Atari built the TT to be compatible with the ST, so it included the ST low-, med- and high-res modes into the TT's video system. Without a complete redesign (as Atari did later with the Falcon), I can't see how Atari could have achieved this compatibility without making the TT's hotizontal scan rate the same as the ST's (about 15kHz). This means that no VGA monitor that will not work properly with an ST signal will work properly with a TT signal, at least in the matter of the screen width. My MicroScan 15-inch monitor is typical of a modern, high- quality Super VGA display system, and it does all the auto-sizing and auto- synching needed for proper display, in addition to providing manual tweaking. But all the TT modes except TT High fill only 80 percent of the width of the display. Height is no problem, but the width cannot be made greater than about 80 percent. In light of the monitor's design, I doubt that it can be adjusted internally for a lower horizontal rate, but if someone can tell me that it's possible, I'll see what I can get done at one of the local tech shops. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 124 Sat Mar 27, 1993 S.WINICK at 20:03 EST Al, If your monitor is filling about 80% of the horizontal width of the screen, that's about typical. That is perfectly acceptable as long as the vertical size is also adjustable so the proportions on the screen are true (i.e. a circle is ROUND). Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 125 Sun Mar 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:40 EST Yes, Sheldon, the vertical size is easily adjusted. When I need to do anything that requires true proportions, I hit a pre- programmed button on the ADI. Otherwise, I use a tall screen. Makes your messages stand out tall and true! (Whew! Do I get a big discount the next time I buy something from Computer Studio?) Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 126 Thu Apr 01, 1993 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 18:46 EST Al, The TT does the ST modes by "double scanning" the ST screen. Each ST video line is sent out twice (the monitor runs at 31khz instead of 15.5). A service tech should be able to adjust the monitor for a larger picture. I had to adjust my brand-new-fresh-out-of-the-box Mag 15" flat screen with the internal pots, but my AlberTT card has a beautiful edfe to edge picture (and round circles to boot!) _Ken @ NecroWare Development_ ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 127 Fri Apr 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:38 EST Thanks, Ken. I didn't know that. I'll just have to see if I get my ADI adjusted for the TT's screen width. The picture is stunning. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 128 Sat Apr 10, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 03:21 EDT I know that I coming in late here, but I wanted to point out what Sheldon had mentioned. So far I am happy with the Magnavox CM9089 for the TT030. I was lucky to have a dealer that made sure that all the proportions were correct. Yes, a circle is a circle (thanks Sheldon). Also, I must add that even the outside casing of the Magnavox seems to compliment the TT very well. It almost seems to be have been designed to be put on top of a TT . --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 129 Sun Apr 11, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 04:55 EDT Hello out there in monitor-land ... I need some advice. My TTM195, the only monitor I've ever used with my 2-year-old TT, just quit on me. I think I can get it fixed by sending it to Toronto (quite a ways from here) but I shudder to think of the shipping cost (the thing weighs a ton) and in the meantime I'm TT-less - this message brought to you by a Mega 4. I would have loved to plug the old SM125 into the TT, but I'm told this can't be done nohow. I've been thinking of getting a color monitor for some time (I've never owned one), and I'd love to get one that could be used with either the TT or the Mega, but I have the impression that can't be done without putting some major $$ into the Mega. So the quickest way to get use of the TT back is to pick up a VGA monitor, which I can do locally in a few days, and plug it right into the TT. (If I'm wrong about this or any of the above, please straighten me out!) The nearest place has a 14" Super VGA 1024x768 non-interlaced for $420 Cdn. I'm wondering whether this would be adequate for (a) black & white DTP work with PageStream, (b) color DTP or other work if I ever get interested in it (I'm not now), and (c) whatever games my teenage kids might get into - they'd have to run on the TT I guess, and I know nothing about games (we don't own any but color might be an incentive.) Any help appreciated (I have not been following this Topic) - thanks and may the Easter bunny bless your bytes! gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 131 Sun Apr 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:19 EDT Gnox, A good VGA monitor (you don't need S-VGA) works fine with the TT, with the following, single, sole, annoying problem: The picture will be off-center and smaller than the screen size. If you get a good multi-sync, you'll probably also get a built-in digital- memory circuit that will let you adjust the TT's display for maximum width and height. This will be put into non-volatile RAM (in the monitor's microprocessor) and the monitor will always remember this sizing when it is turned on. One way around this annoyance is to buy a larger-than-usual monitor, making the actual display larger than it would be with a smaller monitor even if it filled the entire area. I use a 15-inch ADI for that reason. Your Mega can use a multi-sync with just a switchbox -- but only if the monitor has a horizontal rate that goes down to approx. 15 kHz. Most don't. In fact, nearly all new monitors don't. BTW, with two SM124s, one SC1225 (by JVC), a Sony m-sync and the ADI, I have had a pretty good chance to compare the screen quality. The ADI is actually sharper than either of the two SM124s when I put the TT into ST High mode, although the refresh rate is lower on the TT than the ST, and so there is a slight advantage to the ST's monochrome monitor in the clarity of the overall image. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 132 Sun Apr 11, 1993 M.WILKENS at 16:28 EDT Does anybody know the horizontal and vertical sweep rates that the TT outputs in TT hi-res? I heard somewhere that the vertical freq. was something like 71 Hz, which would mean a pretty high horizontal freq. (over 64 kHz?). I am aware that the TT outputs the TT hi-res signsignal over special wires in ECL, but is the timing the same as the R,G,B signals on a multisync? Also, what does the TT want on the mono. detect line, in order for it to output TT hi- res? I presume hi-Z means "output RGB", because hi-Z (no connection) is what it's getting now. Thanks for any help, Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 133 Sun Apr 11, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 23:43 EDT As for the "off-center" problem with a color monitor on the TT. I would recommend the Magnavox CM9089. That is the one I am using and the picture is pretty much centered (you would have to look very closely to see that it may not). I got it from Computer STudio, I am sure they must have more (plus they can adjust to to best fit your TT for DTP work). --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 134 Mon Apr 12, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:24 EDT Thanks Al - very helpful information! gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 135 Tue Apr 13, 1993 G.ANDERSON at 19:23 EDT The Magnavox is a very ncie monitor, but it DOES require some dealer-tech level adjustment to ensure a correct aspect ration (round circles, boxes with identical sides, etc). oops.... make that ratio, not ration . Sheldon or Cliff make the adjustments before they ship any TT-Color monitors out... just part of the service . Gregg (who would still love to see a 'one monitor fits all resolutionas' (oops, lazy fingers tonight) system for our TT's) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 136 Sat Apr 17, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 10:17 EDT By the way, the vertical refresh on the TT mono monitor is a hair over 71Khz and the horizontal sweep is a nudge over 71Hz... If you need the exact numbers let me know and I'll see what I can find for you. Keep in mind that the mono monitor is an ECL unit, NOT a standard VGA. That makes it more power hungry and a touch expensive but MUCH faster than a standard VGA unit. I 'suspect' that it was chosen due to the VERY high costs and limited performance of large VGA screens back when the TT was being planned. Hopefully the next generation of Atari work station will take advantage of the drop on high-end monitor prices and the increase in the quality of VGA displays. Again, keep in mind that not all VGA monitors will give the correct display on a TT (in ST-compatible and/or TT color modes). Multiscans have the best likelyhood of giving a good display and allowing enough adjustment to get a correct aspect ratio (where circles are round on both screen and printer). The Magnavox has to be adjusted before working right on a TT, but once adjusted it works perfectly. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 137 Sat Apr 17, 1993 M.WILKENS at 16:17 EDT Gregg: Thanks for the info about TT-hi. (I presume you were responding to my post.) I won't need the exact numbers; I wanted to know if the ViewSonic 7 I use can handle the bandwith necessary for TT-high, assuming I can convert the signal. It can't: its limit is 64 kHz horizontal, so a 1280x960 display would have to refresh at 60 Hz (or less) to work on this monitor. By the way, the ViewSonic 7, a 17-inch multisync, has good adjustment controls up front. It can't fill the whole screen with useful signal; the TT is outputting something extra on either side of the "proper" picture, as has been observed before in this topic. Atari's hi-res monitor for the TT is still barely cost-effective over hi-res multisyncs that can handle the same bandwith, assuming monochrome is all you want. (Nobody seems to, though.) Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 138 Sun Apr 18, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 09:56 EDT Mike, again keep in mind WHEN the TT was being designed. back then the faster circuitry the TT's monochrome monitor offered was more cost effective than staying with standard VGA. The current super VGA monitors are the result of competition within the DOS world, folks bending over backwards to improve a somewhat archaic display system and actualy ending up with something pretty impressive. Due to the different signal used in TT high it is IMPOSSIBLE to use any VGA monitor to display 1280 X 960 with the built-in video system. However, there are the Crazy Dots/Cyrex/Matrix/AlberTT/Leonardo boards that WILL give you access to high res modes with colors AND use the better large-screen VGA monitors. Check out the Mag, AEO, and ViewSonic 17 models for large screen, wide-range flexibility monitors. I can't swear that they'll work perfectly in TT color mode (keep in mind the TT's slightly non-standard horizontal pulse width) but they should handle the third party graphics boards (be sure to call them and verify this before ordering anything). By the way, on the 64Khz horizontal sweep (VSonic 7)... that is a VGA ONLY setting.... I'd have to check the unit out but if it is capable of displaying a 1280 X 1024 NON-INTERLACED signal with a VGA card then it 'should' be able to display a TT-High screen using a VGA-type card or display system. 64Khz is tight though, 68K would be better and 70K best. Keep in mind the TT's current spects are for their unique ECL display system and may NOT translate into identical VGA numbers. The rest is up to Atari and our outstanding third party supporters. With the availability of affordable (well, almost) high-res VGA monitors that can duplicate the TT's monochrome mode (with a slightly coarser dot pitch of course) there seems little reason not to make the next generation Atari workstation a VGA-Display based unit. That, however, is just speculation on my part and a hope for the future. The answer is up to Atari. After the Falcon has taken off they may be able to check this out and drop us some hints, after all... the Falcon is a VGA display isn't it? Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 139 Sun Apr 18, 1993 J.PATTERSON3 [Ted] at 12:41 EDT Is it still possible to pick up a Matrix/AlberTT/Leonardo board anywhere? ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 140 Sun Apr 18, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 18:19 EDT I don't know about the Matrix board (it's from Europe) but I'm sure that if you contact Jay Crashwell or Lexicor they can find you one of Jay's AlberTT or Leonardo boards. I 'think' they've got a topic over on Cat 4. Run over and see if there's anything over there.... I'll be surprised if they're not ove there waiting to sell you something . Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 141 Sun Apr 18, 1993 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 18:44 EDT Gnox, I must clarify Al's message. The problem lies in the fact that the TT does not output one of the frequencies that most VGA monitors expect (this isn't entirely true, it is a VGA freq, just a hair off spec.) The result is that most VGA monitors show an off center, smaller than usual picture. There is a solution! If you are very brave, there are controls inside the monitor to adjust the picture's height, width, etc. However, I don't recommend you do it yourself. Pack up your monitor, and bring it to your nearest TV repair place... Bring the TT too! They will adjust the size of the monitor's picture to match your TT, and they can even make sure that circles are circles. I've done this myself to many many monitors. (my 15" mag didn't like my AlberTT card till I adjusted it internally.... It now works flawlessly with my ST and my 386/40 box.) Good Luck. _Ken @ NecroWare Development_ ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 142 Sun Apr 18, 1993 M.WILKENS at 20:31 EDT Gregg, Thanks for the info. I thought that the TT-high signal was different only in voltage level from what the monitor expects, (that is, emitter-coupled logic uses lower levels for 0 and 1 that TTL does) but you're saying the organization of the signal is different. Are you using "VGA" to refer to a particular frequency of RGB output, or are you implying, for example, that the Mac uses an entirely different signal orgnanization than current IBM-compatible VGA/SVGA/etc. cards do? I understood that most multisync monitors work with the Mac -- although not as well as the Mac monitors work with the Mac, and most multisync monitors seem to have to decide which signal to synchronize on (mine figures this out automatically, apparently). Do Macs do things differently? How many ways are there to drive an RGB display, do you know? Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 143 Mon Apr 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:30 EDT Ken Schafer, Good point. Someone in Atariland could make some money by proving a TT monitor tuneup service. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 144 Mon Apr 19, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 07:13 EDT Jay Craswell is the person to contact re: an Albert TT board. I don't think anyone is currently importing the Matrix boards and there is a new board out from Cybercube, the Cyrel Sunrise, which is being discussed in Cat 16 in its own topic. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 145 Mon Apr 19, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:38 EDT VGA: I guess I was referring to the standard VGA system used by most clones AND, for the most part, by the newer MAC's as well. It's more a matter of frequencies, sweep/scan rates, and band widths. By the way, I just read over the spects on the new ViewSonic 17" & 20" monitors. These sound VERY impressive.... They should be able to handle just about ANY VGA-type signal we (or anyone else) is liable to produce in the next year or two... I'm still waiting for the material from MAG to arrive. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 146 Mon Apr 19, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 22:34 EDT Gregg, the Leonardo board doesn't exist. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 147 Tue Apr 20, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 18:35 EDT Ed, it exists, just not where we can get at it.:-) I've had my eye on the Cyrel Card it looks incredible. First I need a decent monitor though... sheesh... my wish gets longer everyday.:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 148 Tue Apr 20, 1993 J.PATTERSON3 [Ted] at 22:29 EDT Thanks Gregg, I'll get ahold of them. Nathan - Yes, I'm aware of the Cyrel Sunrise. Unfortunately, I'm not quite ready to drop $1500 on a video board, even if it's as good as the Sunrise. My wife would kill me while I slept, and no jury would convict her. Actually, an AlberTT will be kinda risky. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 149 Wed Apr 21, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 05:12 EDT On the topic of video boards for the TT... is there any text file or magazine that has done a good comparison between the boards that are available? When you are talking about a Crazy Dots 15 card for $1000 or a Cyrel for $1500 and so on, I want to know all the pros and cons of them and what one has to offer over the others and so on. Sadly, I can not afford any of them right now. I can get a Falcon030 4/65 for cheaper than the Cryel card alone. Granted I am sure that the Cryel card would do better graphics than the Falcon, but with the Falcon you are getting the whole computer as well with the software. I guess what I am getting at is that I wished the video cards on the market for the TT were not so expensive! --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 150 Wed Apr 21, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:43 EDT Not all cards are as expensive as the Cyrel Sunrise Lou BUT all cards for the Atari that contain that degree of sophistication, like the 24 bit Matrix card, do cost even more. You might want to drop by Category 16 and read a few messages in the Cybercube topic on the Sunrise card. It makes for interesting reading even if you cannot justify the expense at this time. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 151 Wed Apr 21, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:47 EDT To the best of my knowledge no one has ever been able to gather ALL the available TT/VME graphics boards in a single place and put them through their tests. In fact, reviews of even single boards have been scarce to non- existant. The only one I recall seeing was by Dave Troy in Current Notes back around February... and though an excellent article it was a touch short on compatibility, speed, flexibility, and so-on tests of the CrazyDots board he was talking about. I strongly suggest anyone looking for more info on graphics modes and limitations on the TT and MegaSTe check that article out. Around a year ago I tried to gather some of the graphics boards then being released or developed so I could do a single 'here they are' review with some benchmarks and compatibility tests.... For some reason I never heard back from any of them. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 152 Thu Apr 22, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 22:31 EDT Gregg, Thanks for the reply. I had read the Feb issue of CN with the Dave Troy article in back when I first got the mag and found it very interesting. It is ashame that there has never been a review that compares all the boards available, thanks for trying though. It would be nice to have true color on the TT, but I need finish paying off the TT first before I can think of adding to it, especially with the costs of these boards. --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 153 Sat Apr 24, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:13 EDT 'Cost of these boards'.... sad but true, quality does sometimes cost an awful lot . I'd love to see a hands on test between the CrazyDots 15 and this new Cyrex board... and maybe even a Chromax???? Pity WuzTek went bye-bye before releasing their OmniChrome unit, I was arranging for a test unit when they stopped answering their phones.... sigh. Maybe one day someone will be able to get the various companies to send in their boards to a single person/magazine for a REAL 'road test'.... but I'm not going to hold my breath . Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 154 Sat Apr 24, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 21:28 EDT Gregg ... If you are referring to the new Cyrel board from Cybercube, there is no comparison. The Cyrel Sunrise is a loaded 24-bit board with all kinds of enhancements. And it is made in Toronto, not Europe. ;-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 155 Sat Apr 24, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 23:58 EDT Nathan, I would gather that you feel in your opinion that the new Cyrel board offers more than the others out there? --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 156 Sun Apr 25, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:20 EDT Nathan.... Toranto??? I'm impressed, here and I though all the really neat stuff came out of Germany .... Good work.... now then, I don't suppose all that flattery will get me a free demo unit will it? Hopefully I'll be able to see one when I get up to Detriot later this year, or you can bring one down to demo at Sheldon's BlueRidge AtariFest. (hint, hint)\ I'd still love to see someone do a good one-on-one test of the board still available for the ST/TT/STe.... From what you say the Cyrex should be worth the extra $500 over the CrazyDots 15 .. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 157 Mon Apr 26, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 06:55 EDT Cyrel, Greg, Cyrel. ;-) Lou ... Yes. Please download the Press Release from the library. The list of features is quite impressive although you may or may not require all of them which is another story entirely. ;-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 158 Mon Apr 26, 1993 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 21:42 EDT Greg, When and why do you go up to Detroit ? That's where I was born and raised...I now live need Madison Wisconsin. I usually go back to Detroit twice a year to visit family. I will some day make the 4 hour side trip to visit Nathan, I would love to see a demo of the Cyrel card. It won't ever happen in Wisconsin. SAK :) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 160 Tue Apr 27, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 14:47 EDT I would also love to see the Cyrel card. Maybe some day... ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 161 Tue Apr 27, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:12 EDT SAK... my sister & brother in law moved up to Detriot a few years ago. Seems it was his old stomping ground and he wanted to 'go home again'. So far it seems to have worked out for them, nice little house, good job, and good prospects for advancment for him. Nathan... OK, OK.... so I can't spell worth a hoot, we both already knew that .. I'll check out the post in the data library. Hey, here's an idea. Have whoever comes down for the BlueRidge Fest bring a Cyrel with them.. We'll plug it into one of the demo TTs and you can really make me feel bad . Sound possible? I'll be heading up your way later this Summer to visit my Sister/Brother in Law and car dealer. God willing I'll be able to take a day and head up to your place too. Since it's a good five hours each way you may want to suggest a good hotel for me in case we get to talking..... Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 162 Wed Apr 28, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 12:09 EDT If one of us does get down to Sheldon's this summer, I promise you that we will bring a Cyrel card along. Nathan ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 164 Sat May 15, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 23:54 EDT Did anyone catch the cover of the latest CURRENT NOTES magazine? The cover of the May '93 issue is sporting a color picture of a TT030 and a stitching machine. I had not had a chance to read the article yet, but I am assuming that it is the same type stitching machine that was at the last COMDEX show that was producing Atari logos on hats. But I wanted to draw attention to the TT030's monitor here. It has a picture of a NASA Space Shuttle lifting off, but that is not important. Look at the screen... The screen resolution (I am assuming is it is TT med rez) is going from edge to edge. It is almost using the entire 14" screen (I am guessing it is 14") Now, I guess there could be reasons for this... 1) The monitor is not adjusted correctly for the correct aspect ratio. Thus it may take up most of the screen, but circles are not true circles on it. 2) It is using a graphics card (? -- since I do have one yet, I am not sure if a card would allow you to take advantage of most of your screen without losing your correct aspect ratio. 3) This is some sort of amazing monitor that we should all rush out to buy. My guess is number 1. Maybe 2... unless some one has one of these Manao(?) monitors and can vouch for them. --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 165 Sun May 16, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 13:08 EDT --Lou T.-- And then again, maybe just some good old "cut and paste" sleight of hand. And your assumption is correct. Can't wait to see the article. Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 166 Sun May 16, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 22:31 EDT Frozen North, Hmmm... It was not a "cut and paste" job because even though the picture was taking up 99% of the screen, it was still off center just a bit ;- ) --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 167 Mon May 17, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:26 EDT Guys, the Nanao's screen on the cover appears to be 800x608 or 1024x768. At any rate, the article mentions that Datastich modified TTs are equipped with ISAC cards (giving 1024x768). On my CDots equipped TT and NEC 4fg combo, ONLY TT medium is off-center. 800x608, and 1024x768 fill the entire screen. Doug7 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 168 Mon May 17, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:19 EDT Data Stitch also modifies the printer port's output capability, i.e. horsepower, so long cables can be run to the stitchers. VGA monitors will also work. Can't wait to see the article. Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 169 Tue May 18, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 03:16 EDT Doug Walter, Thanks... I did not have a chance to read the article yet (if I didn't spend so much time here on GEnie, I might ;-) I figured that it may be a result of using a video card. I have been looking at getting a card myself, but they are all pretty much expensive for me now, the new Nova card sounds interesting and it seems to be priced slightly better. I will still wait a little before deciding myself. --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 170 Sat May 22, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:05 EDT Anybody out there had a TTM195 fixed lately? Mine's been in a Toronto repair shop (waiting for parts, they tell me) for 6 weeks now, and they tell me they have others in the shop with the same problem. I'm still having withdrawal symptoms from TT High. I'm curious whether people are using other monitors for TT High ... gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 171 Sat May 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:31 EDT Gnox, I'd like to know that, too. Or whether someone could devise an adaptor so my nifty S-VGA monitor could work in TT High... Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 172 Sun May 23, 1993 E.WELLS at 23:29 EDT Anyone: Does anyone out there know of a VGA monitor that has video output? I talked to someone once who had one, but I've since lost track of him. At least I think they exist? E.Wells ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 173 Tue May 25, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EDT E. Wells, No, never heard of one. You can buy cards for Macs and PCs that have video output, though. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 174 Wed Jun 09, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:27 EDT Anyone out there have advice on whether it's better to leave a monitor on all the time rather than turn it off when not in use? I leave my hard drives on virtually all the time because I'm convinced it's better for their health, but I'm not sure whether this would apply to monitors. I'm also not sure what would happen if the power went off and back on while the system was on and the monitor off; would an attempted boot without a monitor cause problems? I am of course assuming that a screen saver would be used if the monitor's on all the time. gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 175 Wed Jun 09, 1993 D.CHARTER at 21:26 EDT gnox, I am not sure if it is better to turn the monitor off or on. You will get a lot of answers with justification why theirs is the best way -- but I think it is users choice. I personally leave my system on all day, but turn it off at night. I do believe it would be harmful to turn it off and on numerous times every day. Take your pick!! You can boot the system without a monitor. It will not harm the computer at all. The computer looks at the wiring to determine the monitor in use...it does not look for a signal from the monitor. Duane ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 176 Thu Jun 10, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:05 EDT My rule of thumb is if you are going to be away from the computer for more than 30 minutes, turn it off. Of course if you are frequently away from the machine for periods of 45 minutes or so then use your own judgement. The biggest arguement for turning them off is that it reduces the amount of break- down the connections in the power supply (where all the BIG juice is) go through. Turning the machines (be it hard drives, computers or monitors) on and off more than 3-4 times a day is probably not i good idea, but i wouldn't leave them on over night, all the time. Jim. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 177 Thu Jun 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:06 EDT Gnox, The monitor does not have to be on for the ST or TT to boot up. Generally, the rule is something like this: If you use your computer every day, leave everything on. It will last longer. If you use it only a few times a week, turn everything on and off. All our PCs, Unix boxes, Macs and other computers are running around the clock at the office (probably 350 to 400 of them), and the failure rate is very, very low. At home, my wife's ST is always running, usually with the mono monitor hooked up and on, and with an ancient SH-204 HD always spinning (it has not failed to work properly even once, and has been running since '86). My TT and its peripherals run all the time, too. The best screen saver is one that blanks the screen; any other kind, like the wonderful modules from the CodeHeads, will keep the phosphors from getting burned in, but won't do anything to ease the load on the monitor (and won't make it last any longer, since it's still firing away). The SilkMouse screen saver is my first choice, and it can even be used in tandem with a CodeHead module, so that you get the sliding puzzles or pyrotechnics while getting a screen dimming (and, finally, screen blanking) after a while. As for hard drives, they are made to run constantly. A typical modern HD is rated for an exceptionally long life, something like three to seven years of constant use. Because of the bearing design, there is no actual wear while the drive is spinning. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 178 Thu Jun 10, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 21:56 EDT Gnox... Using a screen saver will help save the screen from having images "burned" into the phosphor. But that's about all they do (which is important - don't get me wrong). However, leaving a monitor on all of the time will cause it to wear out much more quickly than turning it off when not in use. The main problem is the CRT itself. There is material within the gun(s) of the CRT that emit electrons. The electrons are accelerated and eventually strike the face of the tube causing the phosphors to light up. There are only so many electrons available in this material, and eventually it wears out. Your CRT may no longer be able to reproduce colors properly and/or may turn dark and go out of focus. A screen saver is used to cut off the flow of *most* of the electrons to the face of the tube, but they *don't* cut off the emission of those electrons from the special material inside the gun. My advice would be to turn off the monitor when it's not used, unless the period of non-use would be a short time (like less than 6 or 8 hours). FWIW, I've got an SC1224 on my old 1040ST that still looks like new. This monitor was purchased back around 1986 - it's never been fixed. I know others who keep their monitors on all of the time, and most of those folks have replaced their monitors at least once. I work in television broadcasting as an engineer - we leave all of our monitors on all of the time. The CRT's last about 3 to 4 years. The color monitors are worth upwards of $10,000, but it doesn't matter. When the electrons are depleted from the emitter, the tube is shot. John T. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 179 Fri Jun 11, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 01:48 EDT Al, Did I understand you message correctly that you leave your TT powered on 24 hours a day? Good point about the screen savers by the way. --Lou T.-- Written: Friday, June 11, 1993 01:29 a.m. EDT ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 180 Fri Jun 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:43 EDT John, I think the lifespan should be considerably longer than that, especially when a screen saver I used. We've had monitors running all the time at the office for a decade and more, and we haven't had any that ran out of electrons. Al Lou, Yes, the TT is on all the time. It does automated telecomm during the night, and takes (and sends) faxes during the day. It's been very happy just running and running. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 181 Fri Jun 11, 1993 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 11:22 EDT Al, Why did I expect to see a furry pink bunny with a drum walking across the bottom of the screen after reading #180? Jim Kudron 11Jun93 11:11:58 ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 182 Fri Jun 11, 1993 T.HARPER4 [Robbie] at 20:54 EDT So, are there any monitors that can directly replace the Atari 19" mono? I have access to monitors for Macs and PCs for very low prices, but I don't want to buy something that won't work. I have tried the Moniterm made for the Mega (I didn't attempt to cut the plug off and hack the connector) but it didn't work, even with a string of adapters on the cable. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 184 Fri Jun 11, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 23:26 EDT My rule of thumb is if you are going to be away from the computer for more than 30 minutes, turn it off. Of course if you are frequently away from the machine for periods of 45 minutes or so then use your own judgement. The biggest arguement for turning them off is that it reduces the amount of break- down the connections in the power supply (where all the BIG juice is) go through. Turning the machines (be it hard drives, computers or monitors) on and off more than 3-4 times a day is probably not i good idea, but i wouldn't leave them on over night, all the time. Jim. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 185 Sat Jun 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Robbie, I'd like to know the same thing. I need more real estate on the screen. Even my 15-inch color monitor isn't what I need, because no matter how big the screen, in TT medium you still have 640X480, and I want 1280X960. I understand Moniterms CAN be used with a TT after some modifications, but I also have seen tests of the Moniterms that show them to be quite a bit less sharp than the TT hi-res monitor. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 186 Sat Jun 12, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 03:26 EDT Al, It is good to hear that the TT is taking all that "abuse" and is still going strong. --Lou T.-- Written: Saturday, June 12, 1993 03:18 a.m. EDT Jim~ST Sysop, Hey! I am glad I was not the only one that saw that pink bunny go by.... :) --Lou T.-- Written: Saturday, June 12, 1993 03:19 a.m. EDT ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 187 Sat Jun 12, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:02 EDT Thanks all, for the advice on whether to leave monitors on. Some interesting differences in approach. I've decided to turn off my TTM195 at the end of the day but leave it on (with screensaver) when I'm only going to be away from it for 3 or 5 hours. By the way, I don't know of any screensaver that will simply blank the TT High screen, so I generally use the Fortune Cookie EOS module, which comes close. (The default EOS module inverts the screen in TT High.) By the way, I just got my TTM back after two months of using a borrowed SVGA monitor, and my eyes gave a visible sigh of relief. :) There's just no substitute for this TT High combo, apparently. The sharpness and _speed_ of this 1280 x 960 display still amazes me after two years of working with it. Best hardware decision I ever made. gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 188 Sat Jun 12, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 17:51 EDT Al... Wow - you must be lucky, or have extremely virile cathodes! :-) Most of our profession color monitors (and newsroom CRT terminals) need to have their CRT's replaced or rejuvinated at about the 4 or 5 year mark. Then again, we may be a bit fussier than the average user too, since we demand and *require* the highest quality possible from our color monitors. Our business relies on it! :-) Actually, the likelyhood of a cathode totally running out of electrons is slim to none. But three things do happen - 1) electrons do end up slowly depleting themselves over time, 2) "junk" material starts forming over the cathode due to chemical and electrical reactions which slows the flow of electrons, and 3) the tubes themselves start to "leak" permitting gasses to form inside (there should be a pure vacuum in there) which mucks up the flow of the remaining electrons. Unless the screen saver has some way to shut off the filament in the tube, electrons will continue to flow. Screen savers cause the tube to go into beam cutoff, which diverts the electrons being emitted into the electron gun's version of a bit bucket! :-) John T. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 189 Sun Jun 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:36 EDT Gnow, Blanking a monmo screen involves a bit of hocus-pocus. Al Thanks, John. I *do* have virile cathodes! Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 190 Sat Jun 19, 1993 J.FOUCH [JIM FOUCH] at 23:01 EDT Anyone know is you can use a standard Moniterm monitor with a stock TT030? I read in Current Notes some months back you could. Then a reader wrote in and said that you could, and he had a friend who was. Thanks, Jim Fouch Erie, PA ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 191 Sun Jun 20, 1993 J.SPANDE [John Spande] at 15:31 EDT I find the idea of leaving computer equipment on continually to prolong it's life rather like believing in the fountain of youth, it's appealing to think so simple a solution exists but is misguided. What is completely overlooked is that computer equipment is far more *vulnerable* when it is on than when it is off. I believe most failures are caused by external events, especially from power line glitches such as surges and outages, not to mention lightning. I'd love to play poker with someones whose sense of probability is so poor that he would expose his system to, say, 6 times the vulnerabiltiy to the most likely sources of damage by leaving his system on all the time in the hopes it will last longer (this example assumes he uses it 3 hours each evening but leaves it on 24 hours a day). It just doesn't make sense. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 192 Sun Jun 20, 1993 S.WINICK at 15:38 EDT John, Anyone running a high end workstation such as the TT030 really should protect his system and his data from those "external events" by use of a quality UPS system. The cost of those UPS' systems has come down considerably recently so they now cost only slightly more than a quality surge/spike protection device. The better ones, both surge/spike protectors as well as the battery-back up UPS systems, offer total protection including a guarantee of free repair or replacement of all connected equipment if anything is ever damaged by a surge or spike. Cheapest insurance you can ever buy for your system. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 193 Sun Jun 20, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 17:20 EDT B&C Computervisions in Santa Clara supposedly has a device that will enable you to connect a Moniterm to a TT030. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 194 Mon Jun 21, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:21 EDT I turn things off when not in use. I figure, anything thats running, is wearing. Plus these drives where designed to be turned on and off by the manufacturer so it shouldn't effect them any. You should probably figure in your electrical bill as well. If your $200 drive cost $300 to let run for three years it's not saving you much.:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 195 Mon Jun 21, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:32 EDT John, What Sheldon said. Until I took his advice I used to shut everything down nightly (and every time thunder threatened), but with that danger eliminated, it makes more sense to avoid the major cause of wear and tear on hard drives, which is starting and stopping. The difference in power consumption is negligible, I believe - it's like fluorescent lights, which consume lots of power when you turn them on but much less while running. (At least that's my thinking - I'm no expert on this.) By the way, Sheldon didn't profit from my taking his advice ... I got my Back- UPS from the nearest computer dealer (non-Atari). gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 196 Mon Jun 21, 1993 J.SPANDE [John Spande] at 21:12 EDT I agree that a UPS system is a great idea, assuming one can afford one. And while that probably covers the majority of threats to your computer system's well being, it doesn't cover them all. The fact remains that the system is more vulnerable when turned on than when it's off. Most accidents are unanticipated if not downright wierd; something gets knocked off the desk, the pet cat p___es on it, etc. A friend once discovered his 2 year old son *standing* on top of his Syquest drive and reaching down trying to turn it on! Also the power consumption is not so little if your talking about the computer. I believe that a TT or MSTE draws about 100 watts - that's about 2 extra kilowatt hours a day. That means about 10 to 20 cents a day or $35 to $70 a year. Finally, what about the small but present possibility that an electrical fault in your unattended but running equipment leads to a fire that burns your house down. There just is nowhere enough reason to leave equipment on to justify the risks. ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 197 Mon Jun 21, 1993 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 21:36 EDT Most failures occur during the power up/power down sequence. It's the power surge/heating/cooling/expansion/contraction that kills electronic devices. Leaving them on eliminates almost all of the above. Factoid: I have two (non- ST) identical systems, running side by side. One has been on 24 hrs a day for years (running a BBS) and the other is used occaisionally for programming the BBS and is powered up/down frequently. The power supply for the BBS computer has never been replaced. The power supply for the programming station (which sees 5-10% usage as compared to the BBS machine) has been replaced 4 times. Believe it or not. I leave my ST system on all the time unless I'm going to be gone for a few days. -Tom ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 198 Tue Jun 22, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:51 EDT Ok, I think we should agree to disagree.:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 199 Tue Jun 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:21 EDT John, Actually, common sense is not a guide here. Modems, for example, are better protected against surges when they are on than when they are off, and an electronic component designed for long life (a competent computer monitor, for example) is less likely to fail from constant voltage than it is from the surge of on/off transitions. Hard drives spin all the time with almost no friction, and will last for years. We know this at our office, with hundreds of PCs and Macs running all the time, not to speak of our Unix boxes and minis. Joey, Your $200 drive is probably going to cost $20 to run all the time for three years. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 200 Wed Jun 23, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:18 EDT Al, What about technological lifespan!? Thats where your product becomes outdated and upgarded before anything can go wrong. I bought a Falcon and they had new TOS and a larger hard drive before I even got the box put away.:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 11 Message 201 Wed Jun 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:34 EDT Joey, And now that HP has a tiny, tiny drive, even the replacement drive that the Falcii are coming with is outdated! Al ------------